some people say he started the bleeding of paul ryan and mitt romney but i think his job in the debate is to end last week for the obama-biden campaign. first i want to ask you, do you think he was able to accomplish that. >> i think he did. he certainly did that last night. he changed the narrative. whether or not the administration was back on its heels, afraid or unable to engage unable to loosen up and take it to the other side, we saw that and more. interestingly enough we have a retroactive answer to why the president last week may be seemed a little stiff, maybe didn't seem so jovial. didn't loosen up and try to engage mitt romney. as we saw last night it can be jarring. not everybody liked it. >> that's something i want to ask you thomas frank this style, are we reading too much into it or did it matter a lot last night. >> it's a vice presidential debate, so by definition it did not matter a whole lot. i tell you, i had two really different reactions to it. i read the debate before i came to the studio. i read the transcription of the debate and i agreed with joe biden on almo